We either have a couple people serious about trolling and derailing a thread started to facilitate constructive ideas for the betterment of FW or some people truly fear losing their easy mode ISK source. Lets be realistic here, we aren't discussing new players trying to make some start-up ISK and anyone who implies otherwise IS trolling or just oblivious. The problem we are fighting here is semi-afk plex alts impacting the warzones with as absolutely little risk as possible. I have lost count of the number of conversations I have had with these people, bragging about running incursions, fleeting up, or hi-sec mining on their mains while they make easy ISK.

Keep in mind that I don't have any issue with people making ISK, I do in fact believe people making ISK keeps things active in the warzone with plenty of ships to explode. I am also quite happy that there is a low barrier to entry into FW, for those wanting to explore the option. The problem is almost never the person who won't fight, although there are some of those and they are frustrating in another aspect. That is their choice to actively evade fighting and probing while trying to capture a complex in a defended system. No complaints there, can't make them fight, oh well we deal with it. Simple changes like timer rollbacks and rats that can tank reasonable DPS won't make it any harder for those individuals to claim a complex. They will however, and I am sure this is what is causing the arguments, make that condor fit some DPS mods in the lows and maybe use that CPU for it as well ( instead of a cloak). Why such a problem with that? They can still go run defensive complexes in their cloaked and stabbed ships. They would no longer have as large of an impact in a system they have no interest in doing anything but farming in.

Something does ultimately need to be done to limit this type of activity. I and my faction warfare allies attempt to hold the sovereignty of our home systems in the spirit of the design for little to no reward. We know how to counter it, we are here to tell CCP that it is creating serious issues that will impact the system and the game in general if we are forced to counter it in it's current iteration, in perpetuity. It has already done so with many people tiring of it and asking for changes almost immediately with more and more doing the same all the time. If all you have to say is "Oh its all about you" and "You just want to farm noobs" then you bring nothing constructive to the conversation. Try to be big boys and girls, tough as it may be, and add something to help resolve the issue rather than the simplistic trolling.

Sure, its all numbers. Spreadsheets in space and all that.

My cloaky farmer alt sits in a Medium plex for 18 min. A WT comes to the activation gate so I cloak up. Currently if he wants to cap the plex he has to sit in the plex for the base time of the plex as well as the 18 minutes that my cloaky farmer sat there. All we are asking for is that if the person that was running the plex bails or cloaks the timer goes back to the base time of the plex.

This will reduce the impact the cloaky farmers have on the warzone without stopping them from being able to plex as well as insentivize them to stay and actually fight for the plex that they have invested 18 minutes into.

You sound as if you do not want this change. Why is that?

Yeah but if there are 10 people in 10 plexes they should be able to take a dramiel don't you think? Maybe if they you know teamed up?

Only if they make the strategic decision to actively engage the Darmiel pilot together. Then it is a choice of killing the dram and rerunning the timers with all of them, a select few of them, or playing avoidance games (warping around to 10 plexes and activating the gate takes time).

Also, I generally don't think the best implementation would be instant rollbacks of the timer as soon as someone cloaks or warps out of the plex because of this scenario. I think it should start counting back to the original time at an enhanced rate (10 seconds for ever 1 or so) until it reaches its base timer). But that is really more of tweaking the idea than tossing the idea out itself.

Why are you against timer rollbacks?

An interesting idea, but I think Implementing Timer rollbacks will be enough for now.

And there's the rub. You think that it would be a terrible and imbalanced idea. However if you look at the people that are actually in FW that are posting in the thread you will find that most are in favor of Timer Rollbacks.

I'm not sure what makes you think it would be a terrible and imbalanced idea because it wouldn't stop farming, it would just make it take slightly more work.

The problem is that no one has actually made a compelling case that establishes that there is a real problem. All we have heard is that people doing this stuff means that you guys have to actually cap plexes when you don't want to do so. Farmers can be killed or driven off without much difficulty. You can hold your plexes against them without much difficulty. Where is the problem? Well, the problem is that you don't want to do the necessary things, not that you can't.

As I see it, the current issue is not the mechanics, it's that you are faced at the moment with an overwhelming numerical superiority. Don't get me wrong - that absolutely sucks. But it does not mean that the mechanics you identify are broken. You are trying to hold the line against much higher numbers and that means you have to work much harder to do so if you want to maintain control. That is leading to burnout among some players who just don't enjoy doing what is needed to counter the enemy's tactics.

Now, there might be an argument to be had about balancing things when faced with a major numerical imbalance on one side of the war but that would be a different discussion. The topics that have been picked up on here, i.e. stabbed or cloaky farmers, already have direct counters and what is being argued for is a change in the rules so that you don't have to counter them because you don't enjoy doing so. If you frame the real issue honestly and acknowledge that what you object to is being swarmed by a numerically superior force and that you don't think that should be possible in the FW environment then there is the chance for a decent conversation. But currently what are being trotted out are a load of canards backed up by misleading statements.

So 1 guy in a Faction Fit Daredevil with Links could cause issues for a half a dozen plexers until they ganged up and killed him? This already happens. The nulling out of their "investment" is because they were unwilling to fight for the combat plex. They can kill him, scoop the loot, and then go back to plexing like bosses. Or they can put 2 people in each plex instead of 1.

If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off?

What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing.

You're right, FW should only be a place for ~ELITEPVPERS~. Newbies should stick to RvB. <-- I am a 2013 player and am not an elitepvper and I support this change. Why do you think young players won't be able to deal with Timer Rollbacks? For young players teaming up to take down the big bad monster is a common tactic. And some day if they keep at it they become the big bad monster!

Running plexes in FW will still pay better than mining in Hisec even with timer rollbacks, and at the same time allows you to pvp. I don't believe this change will cause me to be any broker than I already am.

Rewards are already split when multiple people are in the plex.

The best timer rollback idea goes something like this:


1. You start capturing a plex like today.
2. If you leave the plex, timer freezes just like today.
3. If a militia member enters a plex that has been run by the opposition militia, then the plex starts running back to neutral at an increased rate. Once it reaches neutral, it runs as it does today.
4. If the timer is running down to neutral and the last militia left the plex, the timer continue to run to neutral at normal time.
5. If the opposition militia enters a plex that is auto-running to neutral, it stops auto-running and runs as it does today.

No, they don't, that is exactly what we are asking for.

You said chasing people out caused the timers to roll back, it does not. Sitting in the plex however does.

Can you be counted in the camp then that believes some change should be made? Everyone counts! (And you are correct that the devil is in the details, but step one is getting CCP to acknowledge that change is needed).

Yup, all we want is a better one.

Should a 500k SP alt in a throw away frigate be able to do 95% of the tasks required to take sov anywhere in the game? Should they be able to do so with ease while making 40 mil isk/hour or more?

If you answered no to either of these questions then you should be in support of a slight alteration to FW plexing mechanics.

Sure people should be able to affect the EVE Universe. The question is in how much, how easily, and at what level of risk. Or do you think I should be able to take a 500k SP alt to nul and reinforce everything?

500k SP alts

SOV in FW is a big deal to those of us who are in FW who aren't pure farmers.

TLDR: We want more PvP, not chasing stabbed frigates around,

Roime, you have my support

Looking at the killboards for ships that are designed not to get killed doesn't tell you a lot other than they are good at not getting killd.

Don't think you will find many FW people in this thread that will say there isn't plenty of PvP to be had. That isn't our gripe.

All I would like to see is a slight reduction in the impact farmers have on Warzone control.

Last I looked in the history books no entity ever lost control of their territories due to being out farmed.

The one arguing that game mechanics need to be changed is the one who needs to prove there's an issue. "Because I say so" is in no way a valid reason to redesign low sec's primary unique mechanic.

We get plenty of kills, the issue we have is with the risk/reward involved in combination with the impact on WZ/System control.